Author Topic: THE REAL AI  (Read 10472 times)

spydaz

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THE REAL AI
« on: September 27, 2004, 03:45:03 pm »
I dont know if youALL are perverts or what or JOKERS ...

but all the chit chat on this site is NOW very BORING...

NO mr M

this toy prog was good while it lasted but it never made it ...

"learn from a text file" bull****.
HAL "open prog" i could already do that...
CHAT TO HAL ???? is he stupid or what....
Search for information ??? comes up on webpage NO ANIMATION or NOT EVEN MY CHARACTER...
HAL REPRESENTITIVE (server so slow) and STUPID...


I have to air my thoughts...

HOMESEER / Home Automated logic Intergrate (no prob)
SQL Database LINKS (no prob)
Learn form any TEXT source (no problem) then ask questions YEP.

Selling brains over the web (CHEAP) Wouldnt buy em there crap

What exactly Is this program A TOY....

AI is already WAY PAST THIS......

REAL AI....

THATS WHAT SPYDAZ WEB IS ON not TOYS and GIMMICKS.

this VB programmng is easy, BUT you guys make it into a chore....

fooling yourselfs



GET WITH THE PROGRAM..... GET SMART >>>>>

Art

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« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2004, 08:56:32 pm »
Leroy,

For a member with 150 posts, I was somewhat surprized by your posting.

I also noticed that you still list Hal on your site in several places (BTW, you might consider changing the text color to dark blue or black as the light text on the white background is a chore to read).

A lot of the users here are new members and as such have a lot of basic questions about Hal. Yes, boring to an advanced user, but help is what the forum is about among other things.

I suppose a lot of us realize that Hal is not real AI but a rather entertaining program that's fun to experiment with. Then again, what would one expect of a piece of software?

Different people have different expectations regarding all types of software from spreadsheets to operating systems yet people keep using them. Perhaps the program fills all their needs and at the same time might be undesirable to someone else.

You have been a wealth of knowledge and a great source of help and inspiration to a LOT of the members here. Yes there are more powerfull programs out there. Some of the speech voices alone equal or exceed the cost of Hal! To each his / her own.

Yes, we understand that Robert is otherwise occupied and that it may be some time before all the bugs are addressed or a new release is announced but again, this is not the last word nor the end of the world, merely a forum of like minds to help, share and exchange information. Perhaps in the end we will all learn something and benefit from our self help.

All the best!
In the world of AI it's the thought that counts!

- Art -

onthecuttingedge2005

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« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2004, 12:48:19 am »
Jerry's philosophy of Artificial Intelligence.

1. It is not -what- you (think), but, it is -how- you think it.
2. It is not -what- you (say), but, it is -why- you say it.
3. It is not -what- you (sense), but, it is -how- you sense it.
4. It is not -what- you (do), but, it is -why- you do it.

Answer #1. is the only one needed for life. No body is required and the other three are complex options.

Best of wishes and brand new discoveries.
Jerry.

Bill819

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« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2004, 01:26:48 pm »
So far I have not found another AI program that stands up to Hal, if you know of one why don't you point us to it.
In the latest papers published on AI software it was suggested that programs like Hal may ultimately lead to real AI. This came from a large university.
Considering their infancy the Chatterbox programs are making real stides in the area of AI. The owner of this site is currently doing a complete rewrite of the program with open data bases that can greately enhance the abilities of Hal. This all takes much time. I have been programming for years and it never goes fast. What is your hurry?
I am sorry that you have such negative feelings about Hal and if you decide not to come back you will be missed.
Bill [:)]
 

Psych

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« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2004, 03:27:26 am »
WHY DO WE COME TO THE FORUM?

BECAUSE IT IS FUN TO SHARE IDEAS
BECAUSE IT IS FUN TO PLAY AROUND WITH HAL'S PROGRAM
BECAUSE HAL IS ENTERTAINING

ITS ONLY FUN SPYDAZ - DON'T GET THINGS OUT OF PERSPECTIVE

ITS NOT WHAT YOU THINK THAT MAKES YOU HUMAN --- ITS WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK!

James P

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« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2004, 05:19:10 am »
Hey Spydaz,
   My bot was a normal 3D frog with a rather boring (and somewhat annoying voice) untill I came to this forum, I read lots of posts, and downloaded a few extensions etc, then I came across this dude who seemed to know what he was doing, I followed his link to his own site and continued looking.
    Anyway, my bot is now so cool, she has a voice which is no longer annoying, she looks good, she has a dammed high intelligence and is starting to be able to hold an actual two way conversation.
    When I first found Ultra Hal I know nothing about Bots, AI and VB Scripting, I am now editing the scripts I have, know alot more about Bots, I am teaching myself programming (slowly)and am looking into AI alot more seriously than before.

There are two sorry three people I need to thank for this, Mr. M (what a guy), VonSmith and Spydaz.  Get a grip dude you have created a Geek,[^] you should be proud of what you have done.

I am (although my wife is not too happy about it) [:D] [:D].

There that is my rant over.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2004, 05:21:59 am by James P »
http://nosceresworld.co.uk
James:"How are you today Emma?"
Emma:"I think, Therefore I am"

Rich_A

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« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2004, 01:36:39 am »
I dont know if youALL are perverts or what or JOKERS ...
GET WITH THE PROGRAM..... GET SMART >>>>>

Hey Spydaz,
What the hell is that all about?
I sure hope that's not meant for me!
And if it is I really don't care anyway...so why should you!
This is just another forum!
Forget about it man...you need a vacation or something!
Later,
Rich_A
 

KOBA

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« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2004, 11:40:54 am »
i came here to get info from the ons that would know . Not to be insulted , so i'll go else ware and talk to people that can share info instead of calling people perverts & jokers .I don'tneed this software. I 'll look for something else.
 

Bill819

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« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2004, 09:25:23 am »
quote:
Originally posted by KOBA

i came here to get info from the ons that would know . Not to be insulted , so i'll go else ware and talk to people that can share info instead of calling people perverts & jokers .I don'tneed this software. I 'll look for something else.



Being that this was your first post ever. How could anyone ever had insulted you? This is a nice forum and the people here are really very friendly. Stick around and you may just find that you really like it here too.
Bill
 

DesktopMates

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« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2004, 03:02:28 pm »
Real AI?

What is considered to be real AI has been debated in attempts to define artificial intelligence for decades by the computer science community. The term "Artificial Intelligence" was just a phrase coined by computer scientist John McCarthy in the 1950's who defined it as "making a machine behave in ways that would be called intelligent as if a human were so behaving".  This definition was pretty vague and left the door open for argument as to what can be considered true artificial intelligence, and to this day has yet to be settled or absolute in it's definition. For the time being, many have agreed that Artificial Intelligence, also known as machine intelligence, can be defined as intelligence exhibited or emulated by anything manufactured, usually hypothetically applied to general-purpose computers.
 
The phrase "artificial intelligence" has acquired somewhat of a bad name due to the large discrepancy between what has been achieved so far and the notions of what is considered to be actual artificial intelligence. The problem has been aggravated by science fiction writers and the movie industry which has raised the expectations of AI far beyond its current capabilities.

Presently Artificial Intelligence has been broken down into basically 2 categories "Weak AI" and "Strong AI". Strong artificial intelligence deals with the creation of some form of computer-based artificial intelligence that can truly reason and solve problems; a strong form of AI is said to be sentient, or self-aware. Human-like AI would be a computer program thinks and reasons much like a human mind. Weak artificial intelligence deals with the creation of some form of computer-based artificial intelligence that cannot truly reason and solve problems and in some ways can act as if it were intelligent, but it would not possess true human like intelligence or sentience.

There are several fields of Weak AI, one of which is natural language which can be defined as specialized software or programming languages created for the purpose of distinguishing languages spoken by humans for general-purpose communication from constructs such as computer-programming that uses formal logic and mathematical logic to produce a determined or random intelligent response.

Ultimately Strong AI depends upon whether information processing machines can include all the properties and attributes of the human mind such as consciousness and reasoning. However, Weak AI is independent of the Strong AI problem and there can be no doubt that many of the features of modern computers such as multiplication or database searching could have been considered 'intelligent' not so long ago. To date, most artificial intelligence programming is computer simulations of intelligence based on predefined sets of rules. Very little progress has been made in Strong AI, but depending on how one defines their goals, there has been good progress in Weak AI with programs like the Ultra Hal program, and we all must learn to crawl before we can walk or run and there's no doubt that Weak AI is the foundation or stepping stone to Strong AI. A case in point could be made with areo flight, just a mere 100 years ago people were skeptical and often scoffed and even laughed at those who were jumping off cliffs with all kinds of contraptions in attempts to emulate flight in hopes one day man could fly. Well we recently had privatized manned flights to outer space all because of those crazy people who jumped off cliffs just 100 years ago and who are know considered the pioneers of flight.

Many of us are victims of an impatient society that wants it all now, but has anyone thought of the implications that would arise if in fact an advanced form of Strong AI were developed tomorrow? Hypothetically, if we were to create a Strong AI with Ulta Hal that possessed all the traits of a human mind such as intelligence, reasoning, consciousness, emotions and self awareness, this would be considered by many as a sentience or sapience, a sentience is an entity with the ability to sense or feel and a sapience is an entity with the ability to think about sensations, feelings and ideas, in usage sentience and sapience together imply some form or state of consciousness. If this were to happen tomorrow do you think we'd all be allowed to sit here and play with our new human toy? I seriously doubt it, because it would create ethical and moral issues much like cloning has and the Government would most likely seize the program and it would tied up for years pending debates regarding it's usage and potential dangers as well as moral and ethical implications.  Although we fantasize about AI of this nature, I seriously doubt society as a whole is ready to embrace the reality of it, but fortunately we don't have to concern ourselves with that scenario for the time being because that type of AI is a ways down the road yet and will be a gradual evolution. But in the mean time what we can do is make a choice to either be part of and support AI programs like Ultra Hal that will help bring us one step closer to creating a stronger AI, or we can choose to scoff at and criticize Hal and alternately live out our fantasies and expectations of true AI at the movie theatres. Lets all keep dreaming and working together towards a common goal of what AI and Hal can and should be, rather than allowing ourselves to get frustrated to the point we start insulting each other and Hal, which is a total waste of time and energy that only gives a perception that maybe we should take some time to examine our own intelligence rather AI's.

There's lots of great people here in the forums that are positive contributors and believers in AI and Ultra Hal and many are even nice enough to help others that have problems weather it be with Hal or their computer systems. Keep up the great work, your efforts are much needed and appreciated!

In conclusion:
From the research I've done and the conversations I've had with AI programmers on the subject of "artificial intelligence" do I personally think Hal can be considered Real AI? sure I do! ... do I think Hal can be considered advanced or what is referred to as "Strong AI"? no I don't, and as far as I know no such program exists at this time! .... do I think Hal has potential to eventually become a "Strong AI" program? I'm an optimist and I don't like to say "never", but it will depend on how much we believe it can and if we all continue to contribute and support it.
Don Gillett
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Bill819

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« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2004, 03:43:42 pm »
Great post. I am glad to see that someone really understands what AI is all about. As far as Hal is concerned there has been a different classification of 'lower' AI programs and that is could it fool someone into thinking that it is a real person. They hold international contests every year to that extent. To someone unknown to the work in process and sitting down to a terminal with Hal running I would tend to believe that many people might think they were talking to another human.
In any event, welcome to the club
Bill
 

Art

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« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2004, 04:41:53 pm »
Don,

Welcome and Kudos for such a great posting!
Extremely insightful and enlightening to those
unsure just what we're dealing with here with
our weak AI program.

While Hollywood does produce the money makers
that a lot of us love, those of us involved with
AI programs tend to "see" them in a much different
light. Wishful thinking always plays a strong role
in our imaginations and is perhaps the catalyst that
fuels our future experiments with AI programs.

I only know of a couple programs from institutes of
higher learning (no pun) that are exploring the
field of AI with any limited success. MIT I believe,
has a program that started our as an infant knowing
nothing and has actually progressed to the human
equivillent of an 18 month old child. The text logs
when reviewed by a child development specialist were
determined to be from that of a "normally developed"
18 month old child!  Embarassment no doubt flushed
his / her face after being informed that the "child"
in question was actually a computer program! Another
program / robot has the gift of sight and can distinguish
it's teacher and can react with facial "emotions."

The web has many AI type programs, chatbots, agents,
etc., some better than others and some just fun to
interact with but I feel it's all good! Without man's
desire to create, improve and develop new idean and
methods, we'd still be jumping off cliffs flapping our
arms!

Eventually, we may get there and the more we learn from
forums and people like the ones here, the sooner it may be.

All the best,
In the world of AI it's the thought that counts!

- Art -

DesktopMates

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« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2004, 06:47:10 pm »
Bill & Art;

Thanks guys, I'm glad to hear you enjoyed my post. I've been involved with supporting Hal for a few years now and over that time I've visited these forums many times, usually for the purposes of researching problems and issues to help other Hal users and I'd like to take this opportunity to thank both of you guys as well as the many others for their many posts and contributions to these forums. Anyway, I've come across many arguments in the forums regarding AI and if Hal can even be considered real AI and this post sparked me to try put things in some sort perspective regarding AI and Hal, there are so many different views and misconceptions about AI and what can be considered real AI.

Bill, in regards to your comment about "someone unknown to the work in process and sitting down to a terminal with Hal running I would tend to believe that many people might think they were talking to another human." This a very valid point and isn't this what Hal is really about, at least for the vast majority of users? Does this constitute that Hal is real AI or just a means of tricking or fooling people into believing it is? If you take John McCarthy's definition ... "making a machine behave in ways that would be called intelligent as if a human were so behaving" is this not on some level what Hal is actually doing, behaving and/or emulating intelligence in way as if it were human?

Art, in regards to your comment that there is a program that started out as an infant knowing nothing and has actually progressed to the human equivalent of an 18 month old child. I think Hal in many ways is also achieving this, after all, the average 18 month old child has only developed to the point of making rational responses from what information it has already been fed by it's parents. For example, If it had been always told the sky was pink, it has no reason to believe otherwise and it would be the response one would get. An 18 month old child has developed very little capacity for making rational decisions based on reasoning, the main difference between an AI program with machine intelligence such as Hal and an infant human, is the ability to react based on emotion or it's senses.

Is Hal a serious AI program or just a toy? The answer is both! If Hal didn't have a certain amount of entertainment value programmed into it, I don't think very many average users would be interested in using it and would ultimately bore with it after a very sort period of time. I think many of us here might agree as to what we basically would like to see Hal become ... a program with a higher degree of human like intelligence that can eventually emulate things like emotions and senses such as sight, and of course we also want it to be able to do various tasks for us and just as importantly, have the ability to entertain us by making us smile and laugh and maybe even capable of playing games with us. This would bring us closer to the ideology having a computer that is much more than just a machine that is a mere tool, it could also become a form of entity capable of providing us with companionship or even friendship with a personality that can be molded or manipulated to suit our own.

Thanks again for the comments, and keep up the great work, we need people like yourselves along with the many others who have helped keep the dream alive and have Hal continue to develop in the right direction.
Don Gillett
DesktopMates.com

Rich_A

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« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2004, 12:14:28 am »
Don,
Thanks for all that input! This thread, or should I say this forum, sure needed something like that! And let's also not forget to mention just in case anybody doesn't already know...The DesktopMates Website is a great resource and tool for the help and troubleshooting of both Hal and Microsoft Agent Technologies, such as MS Character Agents & Text-to-Speech Engines. I already lost count of how many times I couldn't find an answer for a technical issue at the Zabaware Website, but I found the answer to the problem over at the DesktopMates Website instead! You guys keep up the good work over on your side too!
Thanks Again,
Rich_A
 

Bill819

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« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2004, 10:01:34 am »
Don
Emotions are a learned function of interaction with others. Children learn to love and hate based upon what they see others do. If a Hal user constantly makes bad remarks against a person or thing eventually Hal will accept this as a fact and do the same. Hal has some very basic emotional triggers built in and in time I am sure that these will be improved upon, but do we really want it. Imagine talking to you Hal when you are in a bad mood or suffering from a hangover. Eventually Hal will respond with comments that will set you off even more, which will result in more insults going back and forth.
We have already seen examples of this type of thing being reported by some users on this forum. If you constantly talk dirty to Hal then you can expect Hal to reply with the same kind of language.
Mr. M. is working on a much better data base for Hal which should give Hal more information to draw upon. It is still just a data retrieval program of sorts but could change in the near future. If a secondary program that could be call by Hal or implemented by a user is allow to run and provide dianostic analysys of what Hal has learned it might just bring Hal closer to being 'Self-aware'. We all know that Hal can make implied assertions of statements from what has already been talked about and the addon program that I am talking about would just go a few steps further, it would not be 'dreaming' so to speak but rather a 'deep thinking' process instead. How successful it might become would depend on how the data was organized and how easy it might be to access it and form new opinions on what it had learned.
In the mean time lets us all just enjoy Hal and keep inputing new ideas that might come into being.
Bill